Honda CBR1100XX vs. Kawasaki ZZ-R1200

Source:http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/honda-cbr1100xx-vs-kawasaki-zzr1200-15400.html
Break out the Good Silverware

Torrance, California, September 29, 2002 --

These two lovelies were both cutting-edge big bikes built for the top-speed battles of the mid-1990s, until a bike named after a falcon called the Hayabusa came along and changed motorcycle history like only a small percentage of models ever do. It effectively relegated bikes like the venerable Blackbird and the ZX-11 (aka ZZ-R1100 in Europe) to second-tier status and opened up the market for other wacky shenanigans from Nippon, like the ZX-12R and the GSX-R1000.

One of the side effects of all this activity was an unofficial high-speed moratorium put into effect in 2000 with a lid of 300kph/186mph rumored to be the "gentlemen's agreement" among the major bike manufacturers (much like the 155mph top speed limit agreed upon by most European car makers).

But I digress: For what purpose do dinosaurs like the Dos Equis and the Zee-Zee-R exist, with monsters like the Hayabusa and ZX-12R stomping around?

"These bikes have become de facto sport-touring bikes, or Grand Touring (GT) bikes."

Honda's continuing refinement of the venerable CBR1100XX and Kawasaki's further shift towards the sport-touring sector with the redesign of the ZX-11 into the ZZ-R1200 reflects this. The Honda is a smooth, sophisticated bike that screams refinement. Its styling is still sharp, and combined with its smart silver paint scheme, it gathers many compliments and admiring glances.

The dash is a myriad of digital readouts and the engine is as smooth as "I Can't Believe it's Not Butter."

Compared to the Honda, the new ZZ-R seems unrefined and a bit industrial at first glance--not surprising, as it's built by a corporation that also builds bridges and commercial gas turbines. Analog gauges stare at you as if from an old fighter plane's cockpit, the engine is guttural and buzzy, and the styling is still open to debate. But things start to make sense after you spend some time on the bike and you notice details that Honda failed to address even in their years of refinement. Things like a handy little U-lock storage space, an easy-to-reach rear preload adjuster and front preload that is adjustable in the first place, start making me wonder why the XX is 500 clams more?

Well, probably for things like a counterbalanced engine, fuel injection, the entertaining digital dash and the linked braking system--all of which I am content to live without. Not that I'm a technology-hating Luddite--far from it, and in fact, I consider myself much more of a technophile. Sure the big Kawasaki is a little buzzy, but as long as you keep the revs above 5000 rpm on the freeway and don't lug it down, you'll avoid the onset of hand-tingling numbness. (To accomplish this means either cruising above 90mph or dropping down a gear; I'll leave the choice up to you.)

The Honda's engine, on the other hand, is smooth everywhere, with lots-o-power at your fingertips. The fuel injection of the XX also carries certain advantages, such as quick startup and rapid warm-up time, but we prefer the carbureted power delivery characteristics of the ZZ-R. It's not as snatchy as the Honda, and overall a little more natural and fluid feeling. When news of this bike's release came out, the dreaded phrase "tuned for midrange performance" was part of the propaganda, but as it turns out this engine still feels fairly peaky for a 1200--with a whole lotta mojo everywhere on the tachometer's diabolically orange glowing face.

The only downside is that it can trick you into how potent it really is and how fast you really are going on the open road. It really doesn't want to cruise below 90-- nice for covering ground, but potentially not so great for the 'ol driving record.

Much like the Honda's FI compared to the Kawasaki's rack of carbs, the digital vs. analog theme continues between these two bikes. The dash of the Honda is well-designed and informative, but also a bit cluttered and distracting.

The Kawasaki's old school analog pieces provide every bit of pertinent information you need instantly and easily, even if the numbers on the speedo are a bit crowded. As much as "digital" has become the magical buzzword of our era, analog is still not a bad word as long as it's in the right context.

"When it gets to bikes this fast, it's splitting hairs to try and compare which one's faster."

One item we could live without on the Honda's parts list (and something that we'd gladly trade for front preload adjustability and easy rear suspension adjustment) is the Linked Brake System. It's a normal journo gripe which we tried to avoid but can't. Around town the system is fairly transparent and not very noticeable, but get it in a backroad environment and it can be unsettling for riders who like to settle the front or rear independently going into corners, which would be nearly all of us. The Kawasaki's brakes aren't really fantastic or anything, but they do their job predictably and reliably, and in general make you wonder why Honda goes to all the trouble? Honda's ABS is fantastic on models that have it, but LBS? It's tough to figure out the motivation at the end of the day.

Speaking of things like corners and backroads, the opinions formulated after taking these bikes through a variety of conditions were surprising. The Double X is quite nice around town; calm, composed, and with a smaller feel than the Kawasaki it's easier to ride, but that's not what these bikes are built for.

Sure, they go hellaciously fast: Unsanctioned blasts on overhead carpool lanes and across the desert confirmed something that we all know to be true (*cough* 175 indicated, cough cough!).

When it gets to bikes this fast, it's splitting hairs to try and compare which one's faster (170mph vs. 175, how fast do you need to get to that dentist appointment?). That said, the Kawasaki's monstrously powerful and torquey engine easily pulls away from the Honda at supra-triple-digit speeds. In the midrange, too, the ZZ-R lunges ahead from 5000 rpm while the Honda sort of eases into its harness.

So what happens when it comes time for the straightline fun to end and make that inevitable bend in the road?

On the first such backroad outing I was on the Zed, behind Speedy McSpeed Calvin on the EcksEcks and thought, Oh just you wait, I'll catch up with you when I get on the Honda! Hah hah hah hahhhh... but to my shock and dismay, after we switched bikes I found myself dropping even further behind than normal and pining away for the rough and tumble Kawasaki.

This was the complete opposite of what we'd expected; after riding the bikes on short trips around LA I thought for sure the Blackbird (Silverbird?) would spank the ZZ-R in the backroads and twisty bits. It sure feels smaller and more sportbike-ish: lighter, narrower, a forward seating position, more weight on the wrists, and narrow handlebars. But the Kawasaki is a big surprise once you get it on what you would expect to be the Honda's turf. Its girth and weight seem to disappear and it's actually a lot of fun to ride at a sporting pace. Its growling intake makes you want to open the throttle for more visceral reasons than just an onrush of stupid amounts of power and torque. Think of a late model V8 Camaro or Trans Am. The Honda's more like an Acura Integra.

ZZ-R handling is predictable and instills complete trust in its abilities, but it's still surprisingly quick and light. Some of us found ourselves getting into far more "oh-shit" situations on the Honda; things like rippled pavement illustrate the differences. Mr. Honda bounces and complains, but Mr. Kawasaki just seems to jump over it all and laugh in the process. It takes a lot to faze this big machine. Another plus is that its hugeness is a definite advantage on long trips.

"The Kawasaki's bulbous fairing provides great wind protection for gangly frames, and was incredibly comfortable during a nonstop run across the desert to Las Vegas for an overnight jaunt to see the "Art of the Motorcycle" exhibit."

The wide seat spreads out your weight evenly, and makes even butts with not much padding feel perfectly comfy.

Compared to the CBR, it's a rolling La-Z-Boy. Overall, the ZZ-R's like that well-worn Barcalounger in front of your grandpa's TV, and the CBR's more like a firm executive chair. It's relatively plush as far as sportbikes go, but after an extended exploration voyage up the coast on a Sunday afternoon, I was ready to be done.

My butt, wrists and neck had enough by the time I'd put in over six hours on the Honda. The compactness that makes it feel better in the city doesn't provide as much wind protection at elevated intercity speeds, the forward and compact ergoes weren't so kind on my freakishly long extremities, and the narrower and firmer seat wasn't as nice either.

One drawback of all the horsepower these bikes develop is the production of a lot of waste heat that has to be dumped, and the Honda in particular seems to put off a lot. Riding it around in 90-degree-plus weather with full gear is not a pleasant experience if traffic gums up at all, and in L.A. it always does. As for traffic, lane splitting on either of these bikes is a snap, as they do have a certain presence on the asphalt.

And interestingly enough, I had the opportunity to both be a passenger on the CBR1100XX with JohnnyB at the helm and to carry one for a little while myself. It's actually pretty nice back there, and my relatively inexperienced passenger felt quite secure. However, from the pilot's perspective, I didn't like how the passenger upset the balance of the machine. (Unlike every other Honda designed to carry a passenger, for some inexplicable reason this one makes rear preload adjustment a knuckle-busting affair.)

They're both excellent bikes and fantastic all-around machines, particularly if you have a long commute or live in Montana, where they can take a deep breath, stretch their legs and gallop up to an easy one-thirty for a while. If we've got to pick one, though, it's the ZZ-R1200. It's big, fast and fun to ride. Cool noises waft upward from its mechanical guts, it goes like greased stink, and the engineers really paid attention to all the little details that matter. Nice bike.

Unsolicited Input

John Burns

Just goes to show you. When I first rode the new ZZ-R several months ago, not for long, I was less than impressed. It reminded me of one of my all-time favorite bikes though--the CBR-XX. Comparing the two seemed like an excellent pretext for borrowing one from Honda for awhile. Calvin and the Stickman both loved the Kawasaki immediately. Here's a chance to teach the lads a lesson, I thought. Boys, when the XX gets here, you'll discover what a pile of junk that rehashed Kawasaki is. The XX, lads, is a polished gem, a smooth, swift chariot fit for the moto-sophisticate, and by then they would've wandered off. Um, when I actually put miles on them back to back, I realized the kids are right. It's the Honda's suspension that actually feels a bit overdamped and choppy. And while the ZZ-R engine is a bit coarser, it makes so much more power than the supersmooth Honda, you don't mind a bit. Pardon us for taking such a long time to test the ZZ-R, but I did not expect it would be such a nice `sickle.

Calvin Kim

I came into this test with somewhat of an open mind. I had ridden the XX before, but didn't really remember all the details. The ZZ-R, course is all new. Anyway, when it came time to take one home for the night, I first hoped on the ZZ-R. The growling intake sentiment is right. This thing has cajones and isn't afraid to tell you. I appreciated the remote preload adjuster, and found the dash and ergonomics to be utilitarian and just right for me.

Then came the XX. Talk about smooth, when I was riding the XX, the only thing that I could think of was when turbine-powered aircraft was first introduced to the public. However, the smoothness comes from its counter-balancer equipped engine, not from its suspension, and thats where bikes like these need the smoothness the most.

The ZZR, on the other hand, was just a fun bike. It's a big machine that can be used for just about any sort of task. I like to think of it as a BMW 5-series but on two wheels. That is, I'd think of it that way if you could ignore the buzzing. What wasn't fun, however, was its dyno graph. If you look at it, the Honda makes more power above 7,000 rpm. But during our own straightline testing, the Kawi was superior. I'm thinking the ram air system on the Kawi might be the cause of that. Regardless, I had the most fun on the ZZR through hill, dale and all points in between.

	Honda CBR1100XX	Kawasaki ZZ-R1200
Engine	1137cc liquid-cooled, 16-valve, DOHC inline four	1164cc liquid-cooled, 16-valve, DOHC inline four
Bore x Stroke (mm)	79.0x58.0	79.0x59.4
Compression Ratio	11.0:1	10.5:1
Ignition	Digital
Fuel Delivery	EFI	4x Keihin CVKD40, TPS
Transmission	6-spd, wet, multiplate clutch
Suspension, Front	43mm, 4.7"	43mm, 4.8" (P)
Suspension, Rear	Mono-shock, 4.7" (P-threaded,R)	Mono-shock, 4.8" (P-threaded)
Brakes, Front	310mm, 3 piston	320mm, 4 piston
Brakes, Rear	256mm, 3 piston	250mm, 1 piston
Tires, Front	120/70ZR-17	120/70ZR-17
Tires, Rear	180/55ZR-17	180/55ZR-17
Wheelbase	58.5"/1486mm	59.3"/1506mm
Rake-Trail	25.0°-3.9"/99mm	25.0°-4.16"/106mm
Seat Height	31.75"/806mm	31.50"/800mm
Thumb Height	37.25"/946mm	37.25"/946mm
Thumb-to-Thumb	19.0"/483mm	20.0"/508mm
Fuel Capacity	6.3gal/29L	6.1gal/28L
Fuel Mileage	43mpg	36mpg
Measured Weight (wet)	552lbs/250kg	595lbs/270kg
Available Colors	Metallic Silver	Galaxy Silver
Suggested Price	$10,999	$10,499
(P,C,R) denotes adjustable Preload, Compression damping and Rebound dampening. threaded and ramp denotes method of rear shock preload adjustment. Threaded collar, or ramped collar. Front brakes come in pairs. We assume this to be common knowledge so we didn't mention anything about it. If you didn't know this information, don't worry, you're informed as of now.

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Suzuki Bandit 1200s

Source:http://www.sportrider.com/features/146_0208_suzuki_bandit_1200s/index.html
Whuppin' on hard-core sportbikes with Carry Andrew'sheavily beefed Suzuki Bandit 1200S
From the June, 2010 issue of Sport Rider
2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S

When it comes to the horsepower aftermarket, one of the most popular engines of the early 1990s to be tweaked and massaged by racing tuners is Suzuki's original air/oil-cooled, four-cylinder motor that powered the GSX-R line from 1985 to 1995. First produced in 750cc form, the lightweight engine responded favorably to various hop-up modifications, spawning a catalog of parts from speed merchants around the world. When the big-bore GSX-R1100 made its debut in 1986, horsepower mavens literally tripped over themselves in their rush to build parts aimed at squeezing even more thrust from the stoutly engineered mill. The onslaught of technology waits for no one, however, and now the only remaining Suzuki to utilize the venerable powerplant is the Bandit 1200.

One person who has established a long-standing reputation for extracting unbelievable amounts of power from that particular engine is Carry Andrew of HyperCycle. An enthusiastic participant in past Sport Rider UFO shootouts, Andrew manufactures his horsepower the old-fashioned way: no artificial tricks like nitrous or turbos, just straightforward normally-aspirated engineering.

In Suzuki's Bandit 1200, Andrew saw the perfect streetable superbike. "I'm an old-style rider. I grew up on the old-style superbikes, before they had full fairings and clip-ons," recalls the affable AMA racing veteran. Andrew raced the AMA Superbike series during its infancy, campaigning various racebikes from 1978 to 1989. Starting off with the original single-cam Honda 750, Andrew swiftly progressed to Kawasaki's Z-1 and GPz series, then competed on Honda's VF750F Interceptor in '83. He finished his career racing Suzuki GSX-Rs, winning an AMA Endurance championship in 1988, and then became the main engine tuner for various AMA Supersport teams, where he amassed all of his vast knowledge dealing with the then-innovative four-cylinder motors.
2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Engine View
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Not a whole lot of external...

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2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Engine View
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Not a whole lot of external trickery is evident, other than the 41mm Keihin flat-slide carbs (with no airbox; being an engine builder, Andrew's not too worried about it). Actually, there's not too much wild componentry inside the 1216cc mill, either, but you'd be very surprised at the power output from such a relatively simple motor.

The Bandit 1200 uses the same basic engine from the original big-bore GSX-R, which meant that Andrew could weave his magic on the propulsion side, while the Suzuki's non-GP-tuck riding position is more like the superbikes of yesteryear that he used to race. "I'm getting older these days. I like to go on longer rides without getting sore," laughs Andrew.

Considering its monster power output (around 165 horsepower at the rear wheel, and our well-calibrated butt dynos won't dispute that), the motor in Andrew's Bandit has surprisingly minimal modifications. "I wasn't able to source a suitably larger oil cooler in time, and the GSX-R motors put out a lot of heat when you squeeze really high horsepower out of them," reveals Andrew. A set of 81mm JE pistons sit atop the ubiquitous Carillo rods, which are attached to an APE lightened and balanced crankshaft with micro-polished journals. Milling the surface of both the cylinder block and the ported and polished (to HyperCycle specs) cylinder head bumps up the compression ratio to 13.2:1, and we did notice the tell-tale odor of racing fuel when we rode Andrew's bike. A set of Yoshimura Stage 2 cams works the stock-size valves through the company's valve spring kit, utilizing titanium retainers.

The 1216cc mill breathes through a set of 41mm Keihin FCR flatslide carbs, with only a heat shield to protect them; no airbox or individual filters attached. "I figure that it's pretty difficult for any major particles of dirt to make a 180-degree turn into the carb throats," reasons Andrew. Exhaling is through a Yoshimura Tri-Oval stainless steel exhaust system, sporting a dual-outlet titanium canister. Power output is fed through a Barnett clutch, utilizing one stock diaphragm spring and one Barnett unit. Final drive uses a color-coordinated EK 520 chain running around AFAM sprockets.
2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Front Wheel View
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It's all Performance Machine...

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2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Front Wheel View
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It's all Performance Machine components up front, with a pair of their 320mm floating cast iron discs set on their spun aluminum Chicane wheel, grabbed by PM's new four-piston calipers; braking action was fantastic, some of the best we've ever tried. Jim Lindemann did an excellent job revalving the stock preload-adjustable-only forks.

Suspension duties are handled by a Lindemann Engineering-massaged Penske shock out back, while the Bandit's conventional spring-preload-only adjustable fork got the full Lindemann treatment. The fork tubes were coated with titanium nitride for less stiction, while the cartridge internals were modified with a shim stack approximating the damping curve of a GSX-R600, along with stiffer springs.

A set of hard-anodized Performance Machine Chicane spun-aluminum wheels in the usual 17-inch diameter (3.50-inch wide up front, 6.0-inch wide out back) carry sticky Dunlop D208 GP radials for traction. Slowing all this hardware is a pair of Performance Machine's new four-piston calipers biting on PM's cast-iron 320mm discs, fed by Goodridge brake lines.

We got a chance to take Andrew's Bandit for a spin up one of the tighter canyon roads near our offices, and found it to be a relatively docile package, despite its prodigous power output. The Keihin flatslide carbs can be notoriously difficult to get dialed in, but the HyperCycle Bandit carbureted flawlessly, starting and idling without a problem, while producing crisp power from as low as 2000 rpm. Dial in more than half-throttle above 3500 rpm, however, and you'd better be pointed in the right direction--Andrew's bike possesses incredible torque in the low-to-midrange rpm band, launching the bike with such force that the front end reaches for the sky in the first three gears without provocation. In fact, we were wishing for a steering damper, as the Bandit's propensity for lofting the front wheel out of corners sometimes caused some headshake when the tire came back down to earth. Serious power begins at 6500 rpm, with the acceleration literally trying to peel the bars out of your hands, all the way up to the engine's peak power near the 10,500 rpm redline.
2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Foot Peg View
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Yoyodyne supplied the beautiful...

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2002 Suzuki Bandit 1200S Foot Peg View
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Yoyodyne supplied the beautiful Mikuni rearset foot controls, which helped keep the rider's feet out of harm's way without undue discomfort. Titanium bits from Yoyodyne are sprinkled liberally throughout the bike.

Just as impressive were the PM brakes and Lindemann-massaged suspension. The power and feel from the four-piston PM front calipers is outstanding, with excellent progressiveness through the lever travel allowing you to bleed off just the right amount of speed with little effort. And we couldn't find much fault with the suspension, even though the Bandit's fork is only adjustable for spring preload; we've always liked the highly adjustable Penske shocks (especially after Jim Lindemann has tweaked them), with their superior ability to keep the chassis stable, justifying their somewhat expensive price.

Andrew always goes riding with his buddies who ride the usual hard-core sportbikes, but never really comes away wanting after a hard canyon sortie. "They never leave me in any spots, no matter which roads we ride on. So I never see the need to upgrade yet," he says. With a Bandit 1200 like his, we don't see it happening in the foreseeable future, either.

Editor's note: For those of you interested in Andrew's handiwork on more hardcore machinery, he's in the process of building a monster GSX-R1000. Stay tuned.

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